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Therealmansons: Forty-one years ago today; March 29, 1971, the jury came back with the verdict “death in the San Quentin gas chamber” for Charles Manson and his three defendants. The man who confessed to taking all seven Tate and LaBianca victims’ lives, Charles Watson, was still in Texas fighting extradition to stand trial for leading the murders. By then media hype was over and his trial only had about 25% of the media coverage, despite being the leader in the killings. By the time Watson went on trial; August 2, 1971, the jury had a hard time convicting him and almost came back hung on the decision.  However, they too came back with the same verdict: death in the gas chamber.
Date: 2012-03-29 20:44:00 GMT

Sowing-seeds: Trial-Reflections within these new dark ages which breed discontent to give up all hope to see the dawn reveals a victims face beneath the veneer struggling to show that it’s been wronged led astray by the myths of the father with ancient wounds often ignored fighting for scraps from the table while slowly we rot on the floor
Date: 2012-03-29 04:36:00 GMT

Spiritsdancinginthenight: Dressed in a black suit, white shirt, wearing no tie, twenty-three-year-old actor Macaulay Culkin caused a stir when he entered the court. People were whispering about the entertainers appearance, which seemed to have changed very little fro mthe time of the Home Alone star had first catapulted into fame. Media people were elated to see Culkin. They weren’t sure until the last minute, that Culkin would appear on Jackson’s behalf. Telling the jury that he was the godfather of two of Jackson’s children, Maculay Culkin said that he and Michael shared a unique bond. Each were former child stars, part of a very small club of people who’d been thrust into the limelight before they had the ability to deal with it. Michael understood Macaulay, Michael knew about the loneliness of the life of a child star, and there were other child stars whom Michael had been drawn to, like Elizabeth Taylor, Liza Minnelli, and Shirley Temple. Michael felt a deep connection to these particular stars, he idolized and adored them. Michael related to them as people who had to fight from being pigeonholed who grew up under a microscope, who were almost always misunderstood by the public. Macaulay Culkin testified that he’d visited Neverland more than a dozen times, from age ten to age fourteen, often going to see Jackson with his young brother, his two sister’s and his mother and father. The actor said that his friendship with Jackson was lifelong, and wanted the jury to know that he continued to visit Neverland throughout his teens, that he had gone to see Michael as recently as a year prior to his appearance in court. The actor said he spent time with Jackson at other locations, mentioning an apartment that Jackson kept as a hideaway in Lose Angeles, where they would sometimes “hang out” watching movies and sharing a casual dinner. Macaulay told the jury that in recent years he enjoyed spending time with Michael and his children, whether he’d see them in New York, Los Angeles, or in London. When Mesereau asked questions about the allegations made by former Neverland employees, allegations that Michael Jackson inappropriately touched the child star, Macaulay Culkin adamantly denied that Jackson had ever done anything offenseive, or had ever acted sexually toward him in any way. “What do you think of these allegations?” Mesereau wondered. “I think they’re absolutely ridiculous,” Culkin said. “When did you first learn that prosecutors were claiming that you were improperly touched?” “Somebody called me up and said, ‘You should probably check out CNN, because they’re saying something about you.” “And did you check it out? “Yes I did.“And what did you learn?” “I learned that a former cook had done something to me. And there was something about a maid or something like that. It was just one of those things where I just couldn’t believe it,” Culkin testified. “I couldn’t believe that, first of all, these people were saying these things – let alone that it was out there, and people were thinking that kind of thing about me. “And at the same time, it was amazing to me,” Culkin explained, “that nobody approached me and asked me whether or not the allegations were true. They just kind of threw it out there, and they didn’t even double-check it, basically. I mean, if they assumed that I knew the answer, what got me was they didn’t even ask.”“Are you saying that these prosecutors never tried to reach you to ask your position on this?” Mesereau asked. “No, they didn’t.” Culkin testified. “Are you aware that the prosecutors claim they are going to prove that you were molested by Michael Jackson?” “Excuse me?” From the expression on his face the jury saw that Macaulay Culkin couldn’t believe his ears. He testified that he had “good clean fun” with Michael at Neverland “an open-door policy” for the Culkin family, that no room was off-limits, including Michael’s bedroom. “Has Mr. Jackson ever hugged you?” Mesereau asked. “Sure,” Culkin said. “Have you ever hugged him?” “Absolutely.” “Were you ever suspicious of any of these hugs as being something sexual in nature?” “No, it was always very casual. It was just the way I hug any of my friends.” Culkin said. “Did you ever see Mr. Jackson hug your sister? “Sure.” “Were you suspicious of him hugging your sister?”“No.” Macaulay Culkin told the jury that Jackson hugged his brothers, hugged his whole family, and there was nothing suspicious about it. They all felt close to Michael, and hugging each other was a way of greeting him. The actor said he’d never seen Jackson do anything improper with any child and testified that he’d been around Jackson and Wade Robson when they were filming the music video, “Black or White”. Culkin believed he had also seen Jackson interact with Brett Barnes, whom he vaguely remembered spending time with at Nevelrand as kids, when a bunch of people “hung out” and played games in Michael’s room. Under cross-examination, Macaulay Culkin attempted to answer questions that were geared to make it seem like Jackson was trying to buy Culkins friendship. Culkin acknowledged that Jackson had once given him a Rolex watch but said it was an item that he no longer used. It was an engraved gift from Jackson, kept in a safe posit box because it was too small for him. Other gifts Culkin described came from Toys “R” Us, the chain store in Santa Maria where he and Jackson would occasionally shop after hours, being let in by the janitor so the two of them could have access to toys without being crowded by fans. Regarding having conversations with his parents about whether or not it was appropriate to sleep in the same room as Jackson, Culkin told the jury that his parents “never saw it as an issue”. The actor testified that his parents came in and out of the bedroom, that sometimes his father would come into Jackson’s room early in the morning waking Macaulay so they could go horseback riding together. “Did you ever stay at Neverland when Jordie Chandler was there?” Zonen asked. “I don’t know. I’m not sure if I have. I’m not sure who Jodie Chandler is,” Culkin said. “Were you never introduced to Jordie Chandler?” “I couldn’t say. I met handfuls of people going in and out. There was always kind of a revolving door of staff and of people, kind of coming in. Sometimes there would be guests there that I never really met before.” “Were you ever in Mr Jackson’s bedroom overnight while another boy was present in that room, other than your brothers?” “On occasion, there were other kids that were there. Like I said, some of them were introduced.” Culkin testified. “I was introduced to cousins or family friends or stuff like that. And they’d bring their kids there, the same as me. They would play with me, and we’d fall asleep anywhere. Sometimes in his bedroom, sometimes in the theatre, sometimes anywhere.” Before the end of his testimony, reporters rushed out to give the latest “Hollywood” update in the trial. Macaulay Culkin’s appearance was expected to draw a news audience, and it did, even though much of what he said in court was innocuous. On that particular day, the media reported detailed testimony from the Home Alone star, virtually ignoring the rest of the witnesses who came forward; witnesses who offered testimony that would help exonerate Jackson. It was eerie to watch the media machine in motion, everyone was using the same buzzwords, no one was thinking independently, no one reaching out to report the real meat of the defence café. Just prior to Macaulay Culkin’s testimony, Jackson define called five Neverland employees who testified that they never witnessed the pop tar acting inappropriately with children. Joe Marcus, the ranch manager who worked at the ranch even before Jackson purchased the property, testified that the Arvizo family seemed to enjoy their time on the estate, telling the jury that he had driven the family to nearby Solvang, recalling that the Arvizo’s never complained about being held captive, nor did they hint that they needed help. And there was Violet Silva, a security guard at Jacksons ranch, who told tehe jury that Gavin Arvizo was “rambunctious” and that his mother, Janet, was “unstable” and seemed to suffer from mood swings. Ms.Silva testified that Gavin had gotten himself into all kinds of trouble at Neverland, including crashing a golf cart into a cart driven by Marlon Brando’s Grandson. Most importantly, she detailed an incident involving thirteen year old Gavin driving a van on the property without permission. The fact that Gavin was driving vehicles around Neverland, that the accuser could have easily driven off the property was another major blow to the prosecutions conspiracy case. But media didn’t report anything about that. It wasn’t that news reporters didn’t care about important testimony, it was that behind the scenes, TV news producers were the people who made the decisions, and producers wanted to hear about the child star. They didn’t want their broadcasts to be bogged down with facts. It was the Hollywood glitz that sold. And telling people about Macaulay Culkin admitting to sharing a bed with Michael was all that mattered. - Chapter “The Love You Save" from Aphrodite Jones's 2007 book Michael Jackson Conspiracy.
Date: 2012-03-28 22:05:00 GMT

Therealmansons: A short interview from 1970 after the defense rested its case. Charles Manson: I don’t accept the entire situation. Like, I live in the desert minding my own business. This confusion belongs to you, it’s your confusion. I don’t have any confusion. I don’t have any guilt. I know what I’ve done and no man can judge me. I judge me.Reporter: What have you done?Charles Manson: I’ve stayed in the desert and run with the coyotes. And ate off the plants. I found out that you can live out there without the society. And that’s where I’d like to go live. But you won’t let me go, will you?Reporter: You don’t owe anything to society?Charles Manson: Pardon?Reporter: You don’t owe anything to society now?Charles Manson: Owe them anything? I paid them 22 years of my life. I’m the other end of your society. You know, so you could ride your bicycles and do your things. I lived in your reform schools and your orphanages. I’m not against you.Reporter: Charlie, are you…Charles Manson: I’m not against you.Reporter: Are you bitter?Charles Manson: Huh? Bitter? No.Reporter: Do you feel you’ve paid some price so far in your life?Charles Manson: Price?Reporter: To society— you said it.Charles Manson: Yeah, okay.Reporter: Does that make you bitter?Charles Manson: I don’t know what that means. Reporter: What do you feel right now? Do you feel good feelings towards the judge and the jurors?Charles Manson: I feel a little bit nervous, I feel a little nervous. I feel good feelings towards everything. I feel no bad. I know no bad. Voice: Okay gentleman, that’s about it. (Source: CBS Los Angeles)
Date: 2012-03-27 20:34:55 GMT


:

jcolorad:

People call him a manipulator, but was he? He’s said to have “manipulated” people to be his slaves, or whatever….

Manson was known to be a dynamic speaker. He manipulated the people in the Manson Family to join his “family” leave their possessions behind and even go so far as to adopt his morality and ideals. Yes, he was definitely a manipulator. He manipulated these people into loathing the very people he loathed, he convinced them to do his dirty work. However, he never did it himself therefore I cannot consider him a murderer. 

He was absolutely a manipulator, there is no doubt about that in my mind. 

You see, you  need to stop reading fiction.

Maybe he was a dynamic speaker. Who cares? So am I. Doesn’t mean anything.

First off, “joining” his so-called family was as easy as strolling up to the ranch and staying there. There were no certificates given as a “member” and there was no “membership.”

As for leaving their possessions, maybe you need to research 60’s hippie culture. Everyone was encouraged to leave their possessions and disassociate themselves from anything that would tie them down. So, all hippies were manipulators? Every commune leader was a manipulator? That was the culture.

Manson loathed white people. Manson has always said that. Hippies loathed the establishment (white people). Tex Watson said it best: “People think Manson was anti-black. To the contrary; Manson was actually anti white.” Manson loathed this, that, whatever… Manson forced them to loathe this, that, whatever. Absurd. They were all “hippies,” they all hated war, the establishment, the rich, etc.

Did Manson also manipulate Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman?

The theory is Manson manipulated them to perform HIS crimes so he wasn’t in heat for it. Then why was Manson allegedly at THREE scenes? If he was trying to distance himself, makes no sense whatsoever.

If you want to talk about manipulation, let’s go and charge the entire Fountain of the World cult for murder since they were the ones who had that race war/black and white/144,000/hiding in a hole theory. Shit, Patricia Krenwinkel ran off with a Fountain cultist (Hugh Rocky Todd) and Manson stayed there for months as well as Sadie, Paul, and the rest of them.

In your mind is one thing. Heck, in some peoples’ minds Bush was a great president. 

People put all of this power on Manson and make Manson who he is. Manson was not at the ranch much for the last 2 months. He was constantly gone as he was kicked out of Spahn’s. He went to Death Valley, lived in Conoga Park, went to Big Sur, San Diego, etc during this time. If Manson was such a mean ass who forced his family to do this and that and whatever, they would have left. It’s not like Spahn Ranch was as secluded as those books and movies say. It was 15 steps from a busy road (Santa Susana Pass) which is 3/4 miles from a VERY busy road (Topanga Canyon Blvd) which is 1 mile from a busy freeway. Spahn Ranch was not in the middle of nowhere, it was in the north edge of the San Fernando Valley.

So, if Manson was trying to make all of these people do this and that, he would have chose a more desolate area like Death Valley. When Manson went to DV in 1968 know why he left? Because the people he took with him hated it and wanted to leave. Surely a manipulating dictator wouldn’t have this problem! Knowing he was kicked out of SPahn’s, he went back and lived in Conoga Park and then traveled without his family… alone… met Stephanie Schram, his new girlfriend and then returned to Spahn when he was told Bobby was arrested for the Hinman murder.

You really don’t get that info in those tabloid shows and fictional movies.


Post on: 2012-08-02 15:44:00 GMT

I feel really bad for Charles.:

Everyone looks at him and they go off like an alarm. They are not the ones speaking, it’s as if the law creates this shell of lies and “warning” to a Man who, in which i believe from my knowlegde, had a hard time growing up. Whenever you, Charlesmansonatwar, post videos of Charles talking or singing, i look into his eyes and I see innocence.

I just wanted to share my belief. Thank you.


Post on: 2010-12-31 16:22:29 GMT

Frequently asked questions.:


Is Charles Manson a serial killer? No, he is not. He is not a mass murderer either. He was never convicted of killing anyone. He was convicted of conspiracy to murder, and the law states if you are convicted of conspiracy you are to be convicted of the same crime as your co-conspirators. In this case, it was murder.

What were Manson’s convictions? 9 counts of conspiracy to murder. 7 death penalties and 2 life sentences.

How many “family” members were convicted of murder? For the Tate/Labiance murders Manson, Leslie Van Houten, Susan Atkins, Charles Watson and Patricia Krenwinkle were all convicted. For the Hinman/Shea murders Steve Grogan, Bruce Davis, Charles Manson, Susan Atkins and Charles Watson were convicted. Initially Mary Brunner was also indicted for the murder of Hinman. Later in the 70’s Nancy Pitman was convicted of accessory to murder and Lynette Fromme for attempted murder.

How many “Family” members have paroled? Plenty. Catherine Share, Mary Brunner, Nancy Pitman, Lynette Fromme, Steve Grogan, and others convicted of lesser felonies have paroled.

Is Manson a vegetarian? Yes, he is. However, sometimes the prison gives him no choice, but to eat meat. He doesn’t like eating meat at all.

If Charles Manson was given the death penalty, why is he still alive? The death penalty was abolished in 1972.

Was “Helter Skelter” a hoax as so many people have said? There’s a great chance that it may have been. Many people including the participants in the murders have stated that the murders were not done to incite a race war, but to free murderer Bobby BeauSoleil.

Was Charles Manson given a fair trial? In some ways yes, in many ways no. He was not allowed to speak at his own trial and his motion to defend himself as hos own attorney was revoked. The defense also rested without calling any witnesses on Manson’s behalf, or have anyone defend Manson at all. The trial was fair up until that point. Manson was not able to prove the alternate theory, disproving the Helter Skelter theory.

Why would it matter if he was able to prove the alternate theory; “love of brother”? In that theory most of the family would have testified that the murders were done to make it look like Gary Hinman’s murderer was still at large by creating a copycat killer; writing in blood on the walls, multiple stab wounds, et al. This theory put the entire family as conspirators and would have freed Manson on conspiracy charges.

What about the people who testified against Manson for the Helter Skelter theory? Some of those witnesses were given immunity to violent crimes (including murder) to testify against Manson. This gives the criminals a reason to lie; to walk on their felonies and not serve time in prison. Some were given money to testify, others testified because they feared Manson getting out. Some people even claim star witness Linda Kasabian helped plan the murders. Another star witness Paul Watkins was not in the family at the time of the murders, but still testified.

Has Vincent Bugliosi ever been sued for lies in Helter Skelter? Yes, at least twice. Lynette Fromme was contemplating suing him as well, but ended up in prison over the botched assassination attempt of Gerald Ford.

Can I write Charles Manson? Yes, but be sure not to send anything questionable. Send him books of stamps, unused/unopened. Charles Manson, B33920, 4A 4R 43, PO Box 3476, Corcoran, California 93212-3476. Do not send him money, he won’t get it.

If I write to Charles Manson, what should I say? Just be yourself and don’t bullshit him. If you are into ecology, talk about that. Just don’t write a novel of a letter. If you send a book of stamps write MANSON: B-33920 on the back of the book, as well as any photo you send. Limit 2 books of stamps per envelope and 10 photos (no Polaroids) and do not send photos over 5x7. Don’t bullshit him, he can smell bullshit.

Here’s a complete list of what you can and can not send.

Does Charles Manson write back? He does, but you have to realize that he gets the most mail out of any convict in the United States. He writes back a small amount and sometimes the mail never makes it to him. If you never get a response, try again. Keep in mind that Corcoran is notorious for mail delays. In most cases it takes two weeks for Manson to get his mail.

Is Charles Manson crazy or stupid? No, he’s been deemed “sane” by many psychiatrists and was tested at 121 IQ..

Did Charles Manson really brainwash all of those people? Unlikely, very unlikely. A lot of them came and went as they pleased whenever they want. Some of them were not there long enough to be influenced one way or another. At one time the “family” was about 40 deep. There’s no way he could have brainwashed all of those people. Most of them dropped out of the family when they moved to Barker Ranch, so they certainly were not brainwashed.

If they were not brainwashed then why did they do what they did? Well, some of them did it to repay a debt to their brother Bobby BeauSoleil. Tex Watkins looked up to Manson, wanted to emulate him and in a way idolized him. Some girls were in love with him, some feared him. So, there’s many reasons ranging from idolizing him, to even fearing him.

What does ATWA mean? It means Air, Trees, Water, Animals. It’s Charles Manson’s anti-pollution organization. It also means All The Way Alive, another phrase Manson coined.

I heard Manson is getting out in 2012. No, he has a parole hearing in 2012.

Does Charles Manson have the internet? No, he has never used a computer.

Does Charles Manson sell his autographs? No, he can not sell autographs. The prison forbids any money being sent to him period.

Is Charles Manson doing an album with Phil Specter? No.

If Charles Manson did not brainwash the killers, why are they still saying he did? Easy, so they can someday get out of prison. If they pawn the deed off on someone else, it makes it easier. Bobby BeauSoleil is the only one who does not blame Manson. Bruce Davis started by saying he barely knew Manson 3 months and he did not influence him. However, he changed his story.

Has any of the Many Family killers been released from prison? Yes, Steve “Clem” Grogan was released in 1985 only serving 14 years for the murder of Donald “Shorty” Shea. Nancy “Brenda” Pitman only served a few years for accessory to the murders of James & Lauren Willett. Bruce Davis was suggested parole in 2009 for the murders of Donald “Shorty” Shea and Gary Himan. That was overturned by Governor Schwarzanegger.

Will any (more) Manson Family killers be paroled? Leslie Van Houten has a good shot since she did not kill anyone, she was just at the crime. Bruce Davis was suggested parole and probably will eventually get it. Bobby BeauSoleil also has a good chance.

Was Charles Manson really born “No Name Manson”? No, he was born Charles Milles Maddox. His birth certificate is easy to find online to prove it. That’s a Bugliosi lie.

Is Charles Manson really 5’2”? No, those mug shots where he’s shown at 5’2” are doctored. His previous mug shots state 5’7” as well as his driver’s license. Another Bugliosi lie.

Does Charles Manson have any kids? Five that we know of.

What are the most truthful books that I can read? Squeaky: The Life And Times of Lynette Alice Fromme has a good deal on Manson and seems to be the most honest. Most books have a lot of truth, but they also subscribe to the theory the book Helter Skelter established. A forthcoming book called Manson by Robert Hendrickson also seems promising. My Life With Charles Manson by Paul Watkins also has a lot of good information, but also has a lot of BS. If you want to know about Manson’s pre-prison past, Manson In His Own Words is great. Keep in mind this book was written from Nuel Emmons’ “memories” of conversations, and some of the book has been called “bullshit” by Manson.

What are the most truthful documentaries? Again, most subscribe to the Helter Skelter theory, but the best ones are Six Degrees Of Helter Skelter, Charles Manson Superstar and Manson from 1973. Inside The Manson Gang is also great.

Did Charles Manson record all of his albums in prison? No, some was recorded i 1967 and 1968, however a lot of it was recorded in prison.

How does Charles Manson’s music get out of the prison? It has to be smuggled out of prison. He is in no way allowed to release his music.

Does Charles Manson make money off his album sales? No, he is not allowed to. Phil Kaufman owns the rights to his music recorded before he was sentenced in 1969.

How many “Family” members have passed away? Well, of the “major” “family” members, not many. Paul Watkins passed away in 1990 from Leukemia, Tom Walleman passed away in 1995 in a car accident and Susan Atkins passed away in 2009 from brain cancer.


Post on: 2009-12-12 21:06:00 GMT



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